tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post9202131669555743090..comments2023-10-25T04:05:04.377-07:00Comments on Botgirl's Digital Playground: Virtual Worlds: Is the Dream Over? - Part OneBotgirl Questihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01707252228872837054noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-4974094146792238912013-01-14T13:56:53.981-08:002013-01-14T13:56:53.981-08:00It's maybe worth remembering that virtual worl...It's maybe worth remembering that virtual worlds have been around for a long time. FurryMUCK was founded in 1990 and is still running, Tapestries MUCK started in 1992. They're both implementations of the Multi-User Dungeon concept that appeared at Essex University in 1978.<br /><br />When I first signed up with FurryMUCK it was running on a machine with less RAM than my current video card.and could easily support a could of hundred users. That's easy with text. And, yes, they had the kinky sex.<br /><br />There are times I wonder why I stick with SL.<br />zhochakahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06653786360841345602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-43792452186290558112013-01-12T05:30:37.062-08:002013-01-12T05:30:37.062-08:00@Maddy
I said what Opensim is capable of, not tha...@Maddy<br /><br />I said what Opensim is capable of, not that it is a grid or 3D web in itself. I said it is the nearest thing to a 3D web which gives it clear advantages over Second Life for the future. No other platform has the hypergrid option and and the Opensim walled gardens are all capable of opening up to Hypergrid while Second Life had that option closed by Linden Lab long ago. Kitely and Avination have both let it be known they will open up to hypergrid once the system is more secure. Inworldz, which has made major changes to their forked version, is probably too far removed from Opensim core to go hypergrid so Inworldz is something else.Talla Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11125668800530203529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-50880222530930981102013-01-12T02:37:53.508-08:002013-01-12T02:37:53.508-08:00OpenSim is only a software and it's far away f...OpenSim is only a software and it's far away from a "connected 3D web". And most of the biggest grids are walled gardens, like Second Life (e.g. InWorldz, Avination, Kitely, et cetera). To compare OpenSim with an open metaverse is lipstick on a pig. Only the hypergrid with the OSGrid as central instance, is an approach to a decentralized platform.Maddy Gynoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11995447330712480395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-21811857898078609082013-01-11T18:27:59.681-08:002013-01-11T18:27:59.681-08:00Maria of Hypergrid Business blog only reports what...Maria of Hypergrid Business blog only reports what grid owner's care to tell her or she searches on a particular day. It's quite limited actually and I prefer to count active grids myself. I do agree though Opensim traffic is not that great but then Opensim is still a developing technology and has not reached anywhere near it's full potential yet. But, whatever you say, I think Opensim is no clone of Second Life. It has clear differences and advantages for the long term and it is the nearest thing to a connected 3D web we have as yet. Linden Lab let that one go long ago.Talla Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11125668800530203529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-86785131754996164852013-01-11T09:56:19.646-08:002013-01-11T09:56:19.646-08:00Gaga: Here's where I got that number:
http://...Gaga: Here's where I got that number:<br /><br />http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2012/12/region-numbers-continue-to-fall/<br /><br />Even doubling that figure would only take OpenSim from 2% of Second Life's MAU count to 4%. Botgirl Questihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707252228872837054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-22037745282962518512013-01-11T09:25:30.107-08:002013-01-11T09:25:30.107-08:00@Botgirl
You said, quote; "By the way, all O...@Botgirl<br /><br />You said, quote; "By the way, all OpenSim grids combined have only around 20,000 active users." but actually it is more and truth is we don't know the exact figure because we still don't have any centralized way of collecting the traffic data across all Opensim grids, unlike Second Life which is all under one roof.<br /><br />There are many small standalones and closed education grids that don't publish metrics as well and, of course, there are, I suspect, very many standalones serving specialized interests like product simulation and architecture. The Opensim Metaverse is not a straight forward grid because it is not a single grid at all.Talla Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11125668800530203529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-80863299166901399312013-01-08T21:22:02.141-08:002013-01-08T21:22:02.141-08:00Actually, I would amend that to the people who &qu...Actually, I would amend that to the people who "think" they know what it offers. :)Botgirl Questihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707252228872837054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-22462080829454234572013-01-08T21:10:41.378-08:002013-01-08T21:10:41.378-08:00Alan: I agree with you that Second Life, after ten...Alan: I agree with you that Second Life, after ten years, has cornered the market for those interested in the type of experience it offers. The growth of OpenSim is going to come almost completely at the expense of Second Life. (By the way, all OpenSim grids combined have only around 20,000 active users .) Botgirl Questihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707252228872837054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-27170355888043737732013-01-08T21:01:30.568-08:002013-01-08T21:01:30.568-08:00Dale: I actually have a Gartner subscription and w...Dale: I actually have a Gartner subscription and was researching another topic there for most of the day. I'm very familiar with their hype cycle concept. But when I look at technologies that emerged around the same time as Second Life, or even later, it's easy to see that virtual worlds are, at best, way behind the curve of emerging platforms such as social networks, MMORPGs, casual social gaming, mobile social sharing, etc. I've been working on a little chart to visualize that idea and will throw it up here in the morning along with a little narrative.Botgirl Questihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707252228872837054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-57483390623307361902013-01-08T20:20:18.068-08:002013-01-08T20:20:18.068-08:00I wouldn't say that the dream is over, it just...I wouldn't say that the dream is over, it just needs serious evolving. Your analysis on the nature of the population growth in Opensim seems to match what I've witnessed, though that could just be confirmation bias. To my mind, what we are seeing is that while the Second Life/Opensim VW model works well for some, is not working for many others. As a result we seem to have hit the saturation point for users interested in such an experience. Ultimately the question echoes your realization; is the Metaverse really meant to be just worlds like Second Life and Opensim, or can we broaden our horizons and create a system that can grow and evolve to find new kinds of worlds? Personally I believe it's the latter and am doing what I can to help create it.<br /><br />@Gaga re: Social networks -<br />It seems hazardous to equate the notion of a social network, i.e. a network of social connections between people with the centralized manifestations we see with things like Facebook. I would argue that at their core, virtual worlds are indeed social network platforms. The 3D interface merely provides a shared experiential glue that allows strangers to meet and connect based on their reactions to the shared collaborative experience. Alan Tupperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03021813200566140211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-59200451411800626982013-01-08T20:18:25.620-08:002013-01-08T20:18:25.620-08:00Well, yeah, see the Gartner Hype Cycle; that's...Well, yeah, see the Gartner Hype Cycle; that's how pretty much everything works, good or bad decisions by LL or anyone else notwithstanding. No reason to expect Virtual World(s) to be any different. ..Dale Innishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02771522211082181738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-3512709215759875182013-01-08T01:33:51.696-08:002013-01-08T01:33:51.696-08:00Unless LL find a way to monetise future investment...Unless LL find a way to monetise future investment SL is doomed to a slow descent into cult usage; think bicycles in an automobile society. And nobody else commercial is going to muscle in without the prospect of profit. The next step is likely to be the superposition of a virtual world on the real world, using the truly personal computers which are laughably still labelled smartphones. Pep (A gestalt-develeoped Android-based virtual community will be waving goodbye to SL in a couple of years.)Pephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10509212537895941373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-18789359116858663752013-01-07T21:04:18.507-08:002013-01-07T21:04:18.507-08:00Dale, It felt quite imminent to many of us at the ...Dale, It felt quite imminent to many of us at the time. For a couple of years there was a lot of public interest in Second Life, both in the mainstream press and within major corporations. The user count and grid were rapidly increasing. And then it seemed to hit a wall. A series of bad decisions by Linden Lab certainly had something to do with it. I think there were platform limitations that started to become apparent (and are still a problem.) <br /><br />That said, I agree with you in the long term, but don't think it's going to be Second Life that takes us there. That's the direction I was planning to go in part two of this post. Botgirl Questihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707252228872837054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-88445563501778435942013-01-07T20:50:40.315-08:002013-01-07T20:50:40.315-08:00Oh, I understand! I just think it's premature...Oh, I understand! I just think it's premature. I guess if your dream was that they'd be in wide use by 2014, or that the curve of adoption would be monotonically increasing, yeah that dream will need modifying. :) But the dream that they will become common in mainstream culture? I don't see any reason to let go of that one...Dale Innishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02771522211082181738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-36589841941293780972013-01-07T20:01:17.436-08:002013-01-07T20:01:17.436-08:00Dale, I guess I didn't do a good job of explai...Dale, I guess I didn't do a good job of explaining which dream I was talking about. Not the personal dreams of people using virtual worlds. But the dream of virtual worlds becoming commonly used within mainstream culture. It hasn't even come close. <br /><br />Even your company, which was a leader in virtual world business use five or six years ago, has only a tiny group of people using virtual worlds today. <br /><br />My point isn't that people are getting tired of virtual worlds. It's that only a relatively tiny number of people ever became interested and it hasn't been able to grow from there.<br /><br />. Botgirl Questihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707252228872837054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-42029242787146313922013-01-07T18:49:58.502-08:002013-01-07T18:49:58.502-08:00I'll second what Scarp said. :)
I still have...I'll second what Scarp said. :)<br /><br />I still have all sorts of dreams, new ones and old ones. And I run into all sorts of people, old and new, who also have them. <br /><br />And also lots of people who shop and party and talk... and probably also dream, come to think of it.<br /><br />Nothing wrong with thinking about the future (and the present and past). But best not to assume that because one is tired oneself, everyone else must be too. :)Dale Innishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02771522211082181738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-80678640435489958592013-01-07T14:40:56.356-08:002013-01-07T14:40:56.356-08:00Sure thing. Most of them are ocean. One has a sm...Sure thing. Most of them are ocean. One has a small club on it. Romance, jazz, etc. Another has a public swingers club on it. A third is a nod to Mother Africa, as we are all African American. We just decided to put one aside for a sort of a role play arena .. meant to encompass all HG grids in the role play on whatever grit in whatever way the players see fit.<br /><br />Our OSGrids are all run for the cost of the router and internet connection.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11437835613950349850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-54031666041198076432013-01-07T14:10:47.449-08:002013-01-07T14:10:47.449-08:00Buni: Interesting. So you help run 20 sims on Open...Buni: Interesting. So you help run 20 sims on OpenGrid? Would you mind sharing how they are used? Is everyone on your sims from Second Life or have any people started out there?<br /><br />Botgirl Questihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707252228872837054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-71822480528077195112013-01-07T14:10:47.005-08:002013-01-07T14:10:47.005-08:00Buni: Interesting. So you help run 20 sims on Open...Buni: Interesting. So you help run 20 sims on OpenGrid? Would you mind sharing how they are used? Is everyone on your sims from Second Life or have any people started out there?<br /><br />Botgirl Questihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707252228872837054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-71231052095479294132013-01-07T12:15:43.060-08:002013-01-07T12:15:43.060-08:00It seems to me that Second Life has a cancer. It ...It seems to me that Second Life has a cancer. It hasn't bee shot in the head. So its death will come more slowly. <br /><br />In my household, three of us were and still are in the VW. One rents an apartment (400 prims @ 950 lindens) because his virtual wife has friends who remain ignorant of the freedom of OS grids. However he has created a sim for her on OSGrid ... we run 20 there.<br /><br />What drove us from SL (for the most part) was the cost and the greed that causes that cost.<br /><br />SL will not be dying anytime soon. It coughs and hacks from time to time. But what will happen is one of these days they will announce that they are closing and give people a month or so to get their stuff and get out. "So long it's been good to know ya." <br /><br />The greedy will move to InWorldz or someplace. The artists will go to the open grids. With the open grids being interconnected, its really almost as if they are one large grid and not many smaller ones.<br /><br />We will stay in the open grids. After tasting such freedom, who wouldn't?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11437835613950349850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-78954749323309637362013-01-07T12:15:16.372-08:002013-01-07T12:15:16.372-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11437835613950349850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-2420072410923012742013-01-07T11:03:03.927-08:002013-01-07T11:03:03.927-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Yordie Sandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05257224182627492456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-67239999237465678092013-01-07T10:10:27.570-08:002013-01-07T10:10:27.570-08:00Gaga: I hear you. I'm not denying that there a...Gaga: I hear you. I'm not denying that there aren't some people being introduced to virtual worlds through OpenSim, only that the numbers are very small, compared to the overall market. I also suspect that if you take add the expanded participation in OpenSim with the decline in Second Life, it would indicate a stagnant market.Botgirl Questihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707252228872837054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-71416368847131857642013-01-07T10:08:27.248-08:002013-01-07T10:08:27.248-08:00@ Gaga...thanks for the link. It's funny...I ...@ Gaga...thanks for the link. It's funny...I can see the value in elementary schools. I'm curious about university-level involvement primarily. After reading the story you shared, I came across another story about a university-elementary school partnership: http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2012/12/university-elementary-schools-partner-in-virtual-world/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-31479633517946505622013-01-07T09:10:59.781-08:002013-01-07T09:10:59.781-08:00@ michelehyacinth
If you read Hypergrid Business,...@ michelehyacinth<br /><br />If you read Hypergrid Business, the editor has covered many stories of Education grids. Here is one for example but there are plenty more and some Universities too...<br /><br />http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2012/03/atlanta-puts-opensim-in-every-classroom/Talla Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11125668800530203529noreply@blogger.com