tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post7595843864596728373..comments2023-10-25T04:05:04.377-07:00Comments on Botgirl's Digital Playground: Transhumanism: Road to utopia or Narcissism 3.0?Botgirl Questihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01707252228872837054noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-34686796853705381442008-05-23T04:05:00.000-07:002008-05-23T04:05:00.000-07:00Obviously something made this personal to you Kano...Obviously something made this personal to you Kanomi, so I can only hope this blatant attempt to score some 'peer-points' paid off for you. <BR/><BR/>I'm not holding my breath though, I'm pretty sure this type of bitter anklebiting doesn't go down well with even the most enthusiastic fans of your attempts at comedy. <BR/><BR/>Go back to being funny because this weak prokofy rip-off act is really not your thing.Digadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15292872101245917180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-5005516527509394382008-05-23T01:38:00.000-07:002008-05-23T01:38:00.000-07:00Digado, I accept your surrender and your admission...Digado, I accept your surrender and your admission of guilt as indicated by your continuous and quite baffling failure to address point after point raised in my posts. <BR/><BR/>You are hereby released back into the pool of Augmentationists and MySpace enthusiasts, with the understanding that you are not allowed to use Big Words anymore.<BR/><BR/>And if any time you want to test your soft, sponge-like debating skills in the SL arena, you got it. I will try not to harvest you to extinction. <BR/><BR/>But the truth is sunshine, you are a blustering cupcake of inanity and I am hungry.Kanomihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12045284288830567371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-73949663080418070042008-05-20T06:18:00.000-07:002008-05-20T06:18:00.000-07:00Changed my mind ;-)Ask me in IM what I said if you...Changed my mind ;-)<BR/><BR/>Ask me in IM what I said if you're interested.IYan Writerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00682961187290777139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-35910500210152213072008-05-20T03:37:00.000-07:002008-05-20T03:37:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.IYan Writerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00682961187290777139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-48550647428595132312008-05-20T03:35:00.000-07:002008-05-20T03:35:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.IYan Writerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00682961187290777139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-85589042045856871812008-05-20T00:42:00.000-07:002008-05-20T00:42:00.000-07:00"Instead you accuse me of the same "emotional outb..."Instead you accuse me of the same "emotional outbursts", which seems to be the butter knife of choice in your arsenal of debate."<BR/><BR/>I never did, I think your reply was biased but rational, which you already illustrating perfectly yourself by calling your own arguments fair and mine not in the first line (Something I thought was very ironic, hence the little jab - just a joke remember? The eternal defence of Kanomi?).<BR/><BR/>"So let me assure you with great confidence that I am currently clad as a Hierophant from the Temple of Reason"<BR/><BR/>Well this better be one of those 'jokes' because as being friend with all of the 4/5 people responding to this post in defence of extropia there is an obvious bias. Furthermore I find it terribly arrogant to call yourself the voice of reason in a debate where you obviously represent a single view. If this is the best you can bring to the table I'm really done here because obviously there is no point discussing anything with someone who thinks s/he represents the one and only truth or reason. <BR/><BR/>And as demonstrated above, it's easy to hide behind little jokes, in the end you can always say - 'hey it was just a joke!' but on topic you haven't really contributed anything but bring up prokofys well known track record (I removed at least 2 of her posts from my own blog, but never banned her). You however , forget to mention all those bans happened AFTER she misbehaved - and not beforehand, and in some cases, she has made valuable contributions (I believe she is even listed on several LL 'thank you' lists). The other points I 'failed' to address I already addressed in saying I think galatea gave a decent reply to those in clarifying the point of view of extropia - my observations are true none the less, but at least she put some effort in actually using argumentation on her own points (instead of attacking mine) WHY at least from extropias perspective my observations are not representing the whole of Extropia.<BR/><BR/>I can live with that - we don't have to reach singularity just yet - we can agree to disagree on those matters and I'll even go as far as to say my own limited experience on this is actually outweigh by hers, the misconceptions I mentioned I addressed from my point of view, and left it at that - I really don't see your point in bringing them up again, but I understand you didn't take the time to read trough 44 replies which makes this a meaningless rehearsal of an earlier debate.Digadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15292872101245917180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-84298716930867130662008-05-19T20:22:00.000-07:002008-05-19T20:22:00.000-07:00Botgirl, thank you for your comment, at least the ...Botgirl, thank you for your comment, at least the first one. I am not so sure about the second one. Don't be swayed by the trickery of this knave...and of course, it is all fun and well-intentioned.<BR/><BR/><BR/>And thank <I>you</I> for your informative response, Digado. I'm glad you said it was a "good try" because you are the judge of my posts. <BR/><BR/>You don't need to respond to counter-points, merely put on your judging wig and robes and judge them. <BR/><BR/>Perhaps in the future if you used a numerical score when you sentence posts to Digado Prison with a haughty "good try" and that little snort of disapproval, it will help us prisoners of logic for easily earn redemption in your land of irreason.<BR/><BR/>I was also pleasantly surprised that you found one sentence fragment taken out of context that you were actually able to respond to in the form of an eight paragraph digression. <BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, here are the salient facts from the dozen other paragraphs you forgot to mention:<BR/><BR/>* You accuse Extropians of squelching dissent and refusing membership to non-believers; I have shown they do not do that; you do not address this point.<BR/><BR/>* You accuse Extropians of "drastic preventive strikes like the banning of Prokofy before meeting her"; I explained how pre-emptively banning a known troll is not "drastic" but rational; you refuse to address this. <BR/><BR/>You also fail to address that Prokofy certainly has his own ban list that is not up for debate. Again, you refuse to address this.<BR/><BR/>* You accuse them of "emotional outbursts" in response to your criticisms; I have shown that your deliberately provocative style of misdirected argumentation, selective refutation, and ignoring facts is calculated to elicit an emotional response which you then turn around and use in argument against them; you cannot address this point either.<BR/><BR/>Instead you accuse me of the same "emotional outbursts", which seems to be the butter knife of choice in your arsenal of debate. <BR/><BR/>So let me assure you with great confidence that I am currently clad as a Hierophant from the Temple of Reason, although that doesn't mean there is no laughter in these cold grey walls. Fear not, it is not directed in <I>your</I> direction.Kanomihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12045284288830567371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-28021845107136413192008-05-19T17:45:00.000-07:002008-05-19T17:45:00.000-07:00digado: Thanks for another great and remarkably re...digado: Thanks for another great and remarkably restrained post. <BR/><BR/>I was remiss in not also calling Kanomi on the "Digado's points rationally, in a way that is fair, even if he is not" line. <BR/><BR/>In retrospect, I realize that I let her entertaining writing style fog up my analysis of the actual content.<BR/><BR/>Oh well. It's just a little blog discussion, right?Botgirl Questihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707252228872837054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-26541880294158387212008-05-19T15:40:00.000-07:002008-05-19T15:40:00.000-07:00"Digado's points rationally, in a way that is fair..."Digado's points rationally, in a way that is fair, even if he is not"<BR/><BR/>Awww, there you blew it already in the first line. Good try otherwise.<BR/><BR/>Let me point out to you my original reply was on the post itself, using the closest SL relative, Extropia as an example of an 'organization' that should be wary of taking an irrational stance such as religion by embracing this beacon.<BR/><BR/>Then some faces of Extropia took it upon themselves in echoing back to me they are nothing like I said they where and demanded an apology. I merely asked to see if the discussion was as open as it could be/should be as brought up by prokofy.<BR/><BR/>Next thing I'm being asked to 'support' these 'accusations' - now based on what I wrote, there this makes no sense, so I tell 'them' this, however, I have seen, read, and participated in earlier discussions on this and it always ended in the same emotional type of response that instantly locks down a discussion Kanomi, which happens to be exactly one of those things that causes the discussion to be less open. Now this is an accusation of course, but one based on my experience - in a way, playing the same 'emotional card' we've seen before - because this my experience is hardly something you could tell me is right or wrong, it just is for me.<BR/><BR/>Now when all is said and done, read back what i said, and you'll see how these discussions always end up in a 'right to be' for certain members of extropia, and guess what? It has, and your reply just underlines this fact :)<BR/><BR/>So do I have anything against Extropia? Absolutely not. Do I think they should be careful with embracing their believes as an irrational religion, in reply to the original post - yes I do. Again, as brought up by prokofy, its easy to look ahead and lose sight of the here and now. Again, if i don't clarify this in the way I am doing now, some members will be offended by this and say 'how dare you tell us we are unaware of the here and now!' - but if you just look at this objectively, and take the point criticism, and instead of feeling attacked, respond in a way that would clarify your point of view (instead of attacking mine, big difference here) we would have a debate on topic.Digadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15292872101245917180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-36909358819324016482008-05-19T14:31:00.000-07:002008-05-19T14:31:00.000-07:00Kanomi: Wow! Thanks for contributing a thoughtful ...Kanomi: Wow! Thanks for contributing a thoughtful and entertaining third-party addition to this crazy-long comment thread. You have a way with words that is unparalleled.Botgirl Questihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707252228872837054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-88338170842872436002008-05-19T13:55:00.000-07:002008-05-19T13:55:00.000-07:00Do a Google search for prokofy banned and you will...Do a Google search for <B>prokofy banned</B> and you will get 36,000+ results. <BR/><BR/>Prokofy has been banned from the official Second Life blog, from the Second Life forums, from Terra Nova, from SL Insider, from SLCC... it goes on and on, and that was just the first page of results.<BR/><BR/>Given this abominable track record, don't we think people spending their own money and time to create a community with a shared vision have a right to be concerned about those who might want to disrupt it? Wouldn't you be embarrassed if you invited a well-known author to an in-world gathering only to have him subjected to disruptive arguments, ad hominem attacks, innuendo, and lies? <BR/><BR/>The fact that the Extropians discussed this action openly and don't try and hide it, instead of one person secretly making a decision and refusing to discuss it, should say something about how they are governed. I doubt you will find that kind of openness in one of Prokofy's sims; I doubt the ban lists there are a matter of public debate.<BR/><BR/>Digado paints a portrait of the Extropians as some sort of techno-fetishist cult kneeling before a chrome rocket ship, reciting Moore's Law as a prayer. When they angrily reject this mischaracterization, he accuses them of emotionalism in their responses. <BR/><BR/>Is the angry reaction the greater crime, the deeper sin? If I portrayed the social media Web 2.0 community as a bunch of navel-gazing know-nothings spewing out buzzwords and bullpap in a hope of making millions in a startup buyout, should I be surprised if they react angrily? Should I then point at their anger and say, "Ha! Ha! You can't debate rationally!" Is that fair?<BR/><BR/>So let me counter Digado's points rationally, in a way that is fair, even if he is not. I have been to half a dozen Extropian events, many Extropians are friends of mine, and I have gotten to know them and their community in a way he obviously has not. They are not a cult of proselytes rigidly cramming their views down everyone's throat with spam after spam, post after post, on forum after forum, to the point where people are so sick of their crap that they get banned.<BR/><BR/>I am on the Extropian list because I enjoy their events and guests, but I am neither an Extropian or a Transhumanist. I just like science fiction and futurism. On the other hand, I've actually read and heard Kurzweil's book and lectures, and I understand the concepts, and I am not afraid of them. <BR/><BR/>I just don't think Transhumanism is going to happen anytime soon, and when things like AI and brain uploading happens, it will not be the great panacea for all human ills. I remember James Howard Kunstler describing the reaction he received from an audience of Google engineers after he gave his standard lecture on energy depletion and resource wars: "But dude, we've got technology!" And yes, I'm going somewhere with this...<BR/><BR/>Technology and energy are not interchangeable. We are thousands of years away from a Dyson Sphere. I have teased several of the Extropians, calling them "Techno-Optimists." I say some of their members in the discussions are far too glib in their belief that everything is simply an engineering problem. I am a student of history and history and I argue that technology will be used for war and oppression.<BR/><BR/>But far from being ostracized or banned for having these views, they actually invited me to join the community! I didn't because I wanted my own shadow-filled castle of pessimism and history, but that's not the point -- the point is I was invited despite having a dystopian view of the future diametrically opposed to most Transhumanist thought. Does that sound like an ideological boot camp?<BR/><BR/>So if one pre-emptive banning of a known troll is his best evidence of an "intolerant religious cult", if he cannot distinguish between an in-world community founded on the principles of Transhumanism versus an actual destructive cult based on misappropriated science fiction ideas like say -- oh I don't know, Scientology? -- then it sounds to me like we are taking the definitions of what is rational argument and what it means to be fair to people and twisting them around into a misshapen lump of naught.Kanomihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12045284288830567371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-73435954643567666902008-05-16T08:52:00.000-07:002008-05-16T08:52:00.000-07:00dandellion: Thanks for sharing your thoughts and e...dandellion: Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience!<BR/><BR/>dale: Thanks. Maybe Linden Lab can hire me as mediator at large...ah how about Botgirl Linden ;) I could get an office with Torley maybe???Botgirl Questihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707252228872837054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-44053109472080881432008-05-16T08:36:00.000-07:002008-05-16T08:36:00.000-07:00@botgirl: +1 :)I hope you're gainfully employed as...@botgirl: +1 :)<BR/><BR/>I hope you're gainfully employed as a mediator or diplomat of some kind; the world needs people like you!Dale Innishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02771522211082181738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-63780167698576103382008-05-16T08:09:00.000-07:002008-05-16T08:09:00.000-07:00Galatea Gynoid, Extropia's founder, recently poste...Galatea Gynoid, Extropia's founder, recently <A HREF="http://core.extropiacore.net/?q=node/118" REL="nofollow">posted</A> a crystal-clear account of its history and purpose.<BR/><BR/>Sorry for deleted post. Link was in error.Botgirl Questihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707252228872837054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-69418266050531899382008-05-16T07:42:00.000-07:002008-05-16T07:42:00.000-07:00I think Vidal said it best in more than one way: '...I think Vidal said it best in more than one way: <I>'If you don't like Extropia, don't live there. If you dislike transhumanism... until we see some sort of bizarre world takeover with transhumanist regimes actually beginning to impact your way of life, leave its practitioners to enjoy themselves. They're ideas - we don't all have to subscribe to them.'</I> - finally putting the idea the open debate is welcomed to rest, and pointing out the group Dandellion seems to be looking for. <BR/><BR/>Furthermore it's worth noting the 3 figures who seem to feel offended by the criticism where also the one initiating the debate, as neither prokofy nor me addressed them, which to me is the result of this deep emotional attachment to subjective point of views, how else could my criticism of Transhumanism and its closest relative in SL, extropia, have resulted in a demand for an apology, and the 'phoenix formation' of the usual suspects. <BR/><BR/>I'm sorry to say the this type of predictability is not really a learning experience at all - though I wish it where for both parties involved :) I'll leave it at that as suggested, Botgirl seems to posses unusual wisdom for artificial intelligence :)Digadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15292872101245917180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-26546522211586102702008-05-16T06:57:00.000-07:002008-05-16T06:57:00.000-07:00@Botgirl - an enviable perspective (and great comm...@Botgirl - an enviable perspective (and great comments, keeping a heard of such head-strong people as us in check).<BR/><BR/>Keep up the good work & have fun in Extropia!IYan Writerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00682961187290777139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-39161462821764262212008-05-16T06:50:00.000-07:002008-05-16T06:50:00.000-07:00@Vidal - re rationality:I, for one, have asked for...@Vidal - re rationality:<BR/><BR/>I, for one, have asked for it in the comments of <A HREF="http://digado.nl/immersionism-and-augmentation.html" REL="nofollow"> this Digado's blog post</A> on IMM/AUG.<BR/><BR/>I have also asked for it on <A HREF="http://iyanwriter.blogspot.com/2008/03/hunt-for-elusive-augmentationist.html" REL="nofollow">my own blog post</A> re imm/aug. <BR/><BR/>I never got it, of course, so I got out of these debates.<BR/><BR/>I will not get into debate re Extropia - I wish you all the best. But I will not stand idly by in cases of deliberate misrepresentation and hysteria.IYan Writerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00682961187290777139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-4123644366696829612008-05-16T06:44:00.000-07:002008-05-16T06:44:00.000-07:00digado and iyan:I'm sorry I wasn't clear in my use...digado and iyan:<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry I wasn't clear in my use of the term "emotionally charged". I now realize that what I meant by the term wasn't self-evident. So let me try to clarify and see if you still disagree, okay?<BR/><BR/>In simple terms I meant a topic that is a touchy subject for one or more of the participants. I agree 100% with you digado, that the emotion is not inherent in the topic, but is created via a reaction to the topic by a person.<BR/><BR/>This ideas is in line with iyan's description of an emotionally draining experience.<BR/><BR/>So you can't argue with <B>what is</B>, right?. There are issues people get worked up over whether we like it or not. For whatever reasons, that likely go back to some childhood issue, they experience very strong disturbing emotions that detract from their ability to clearly understand and evaluate the other person's information. They lash out because their contracted consciousness is focused almost completely on the thoughts kicked up by their emotional reaction.<BR/><BR/>This is usually amplified by the initially non-reactive person reacting to the reaction. Fun stuff!<BR/><BR/>I guess I see conversations as a mutual journey towards better clarity. It's like climbing a mountain with someone who starts freaking out because they are suddenly afraid of the height. You can certainly chastise them for feeling that way, but that is unlikely to help them calm down. Since you're tied together on the journey, you can either cut the rope or figure out how to help them. If you cut the rope, your journey together is over. That may be the best choice, because there really might be no way for you to help them calm down and they may not have the current resources to do it for themselves.<BR/><BR/>So if we choose to engage in conversation with someone who has a hard time with it, I'm just suggesting that we either attempt to communicate in a way that helps them get back to a place they can think well, or after a few attempts that don't go anywhere, we cut the rope while wishing them well. <BR/><BR/>Since most of this stuff is not life-or-death issues for anyone in the next 48 hours, that's probably a reasonable course of action.<BR/><BR/>It is quite possible that when we sleep on it, we'll be able to better handle the topic and then re-engage.Botgirl Questihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707252228872837054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-74105019189011159652008-05-16T06:37:00.000-07:002008-05-16T06:37:00.000-07:00iYan... please. At what point has anyone in your s...iYan... please. At what point has anyone in your so-called "person A" camp ever <B>asked</B> for less emotion in this silly litle argument, instead of slamming it down like an accusation?<BR/><BR/>We've totally lost the focus here. It's laughable that in an article about narcissism, we've gone on rather a fruitless tangent here with some clearly individual issues and opinions, but if the individuals here feel they have some issues to resolve, let's do it internally for goodness' sake.<BR/><BR/>The facts:<BR/>Yes, Extropia is home to the SL-Transhumanists group.<BR/>No, Extropia is not a transhumanist organisation. We embrace some of its ideals, sure, but by that logic, we should have our own space program, given the NASA events we've hosted.<BR/>"Extropianism", as Prokofy puts it, is possibly an intentionaly confusing term. Does it refer to an idiom we've invented, or just the act of living in Extropia? Neither of those should affect you personally, unless you actually feel we're hoovering up citizens before you can invite them to live on your estates instead.<BR/><BR/>Now then, we all look like idiots.<BR/><BR/>If you don't like Extropia, don't live there. If you dislike transhumanism... until we see some sort of bizarre world takeover with transhumanist regimes <I>actually beginning to impact your way of life</I>, leave its practitioners to enjoy themselves. They're ideas - we don't all have to subscribe to them.<BR/><BR/>But by no means, please, let a prejudice against either Extropia or the transhumanist theme of discussion degenerate into slanging matches like this again. What possible good could come from that?<BR/><BR/>My apologies for trying a soapbox stand of my own on your blog, Botgirl.Vidal Tripsahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01349850078894081190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-5766283315024608152008-05-16T06:21:00.000-07:002008-05-16T06:21:00.000-07:00It is interesting how I keep hearing about Extropi...It is interesting how I keep hearing about Extropian cult/ideology/religion/whatever not only here but all over the blogosphere but I miss to spot one no matter how I try. One would expect that I should. I live there for more than six months, actually since the very first terraforming of the sim, I can point to blog posts where Soph and I were exchanging comments about how we need a nice futuristic but not dystopian neighbourhod. <BR/><BR/>Still, I never heard of any ideology that is practiced there, let alone that I was supposed to follow. No, not even something made up by those that accuses Extropia of being an ideologistic. So would any of you be so kind to inform me about what, in your oppinion, am I supposed to believe in or think to deserve my humble home on the clouds above the hill? <BR/><BR/>Before I hear thanshumanism... there is an Transhumanist Institute building on the southern side of the Core sim but hardly that is a holy spot where all the new residents are to be joined the sect. It's the place for talk and trust me, so many of Extropians are far far away from transhumanist thought. Myself first. That place is a parcel just like fishing grounds are or Cyber Bunker's mall. But no one is telling that Extropians have an ideology of fishing or wearing Cyber Bunker's stuff. Well, ok, the later is maybe true :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-5147336944641861672008-05-16T05:32:00.000-07:002008-05-16T05:32:00.000-07:00@dale - The issue is not emotionally charged, the ...@dale - The issue is not emotionally charged, the discussion GOT emotionally charged by a silly 'demand' and sidestepping into emotional argumentation rather then respect an observation and take it for what it is. Criticism, feedback, what ever you want to call it. Please understand the very clear distinction here.<BR/><BR/>Just because I change certain words trough typography doesn't mean I charge my arguments emotionally - it still says what it says. I amplify the key aspects of the issue to try and refocus the discussion instead of this side drama you attempt to introduce for the second time now. Speaking of which - You know the beautiful thing about this mutual illusion you refer to (trust me, I got your point, I've heard it before and it's an old old discussion) is: it has to be exactly that - <I>mutual</I>.<BR/><BR/>If you choose to see her as male, wow, that is your good right, but please respect mine that for the purpose of the context of this particular discussion outside the realm of Second Life (or inside for that matter) for all means and purposes they are written down by a female, a <I>she</I> and <I>her</I> :)<BR/><BR/>P.S - iYan said it better but i wanted to post it anyhow ;)Digadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15292872101245917180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-70624952174012651642008-05-16T05:13:00.000-07:002008-05-16T05:13:00.000-07:00Person A: BlahblahPerson B: No!! How can you say t...Person A: Blahblah<BR/>Person B: No!! How can you say that!! No!!!<BR/>Person A: But blahblah-<BR/>Person B: No! Never! Apologize!<BR/>Person A: Please stop being so emotional!<BR/>Person C: Aha! You're emotional, too, hence your argument is invalid.<BR/><BR/>Come on, we're not in high school anymore.IYan Writerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00682961187290777139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-24250148073763530632008-05-16T04:04:00.000-07:002008-05-16T04:04:00.000-07:00Um, @Digado, despite your quotation marks, Botgirl...Um, @Digado, despite your quotation marks, Botgirl didn't say "emotional issue", she said "emotionally charged issue". Given the bold and italics and imperatives in your own post, it would be hard to deny that the issue is emotionally charged. :)Dale Innishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02771522211082181738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-69469398447686966792008-05-16T02:28:00.000-07:002008-05-16T02:28:00.000-07:00@digado - agreed, and it's sapping my will to deba...@digado - agreed, and it's sapping my will to debate the issues that are so emotionalized. Now I mostly stay away from the topics like imm/aug or transhumanism - though extremely interesting, it's just not worth the bother.IYan Writerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00682961187290777139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7329817540513850224.post-5025666755589678172008-05-16T01:46:00.000-07:002008-05-16T01:46:00.000-07:00@Botgirl "Emotionally charged issues are especiall...@Botgirl <I>"Emotionally charged issues are especially hard to deal with well in public communication threads."</I><BR/><BR/><B>Stop that!</B> There is no 'emotional issue' - it's being MADE an emotional issue by the same people over and over of what could be a rational debate (challenge me to 'find' the evidence of this and i'll _bury you in it - no need to look beyond the journals or twitter), and you seem to buy into it. <BR/><BR/><I>This</I> IS the point (You can't criticise emotions because per definition they are an individual truth) and the very thing I'm addressing in the above posts :)Digadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15292872101245917180noreply@blogger.com